Podcast Interview with Dale Furtwengler, Author & Founder of Cutting Edge - Helping Business Owners Succeed

We engage in conversations with successful business owners to learn the little things that made the journey of building their companies special. Then we discuss how they plan to hand off their business to the next generation of leadership.

This episode is with special guest Dale Furtwengler, Founder of Cutting Edge and Author of Pricing for Profit and Generate Greater Profits With Fewer Sales.

Dale’s Bio

Dale Furtwengler is the founder of Cutting Edge, a company dedicated to helping you attract the customers you desire and the profits you deserve. Dale is the author of Pricing For Profit and Generate Greater Profits With Fewer Sales. His work has been recommended by the University of Glasgow, the University of New South Wales and the Australian Institute of Management.

Business Overview

Cutting Edge provides clients with 5 elements of a premium price strategy:

1. A clear brand promise…the result the customer will get.

2. A psychographic profile of their ideal customer…a profile based on values, behaviors and characteristics.

3. Marketing messages that attract the ideal customer and repel those who aren’t.

4. Sales scripts that convert benefits into dollars and cents value.

5. Bundling/pricing…three budget options with tips for helping clients' customers get the best result and the client higher average sales tickets.

Plus, Cutting Edge helps clients gain, and sustain, a decades-long competitive advantage with its unique approach to sales.

You can contact Dale at:

Phone:  314-707-3771

Email:  Dale@Furtwengler.com

Website:  https://cuttingedge-business.com/

===============================================================

If you would like to be a guest on the You Don’t Know What You Don’t Know™ Podcast, or know someone who would make a great guest, let us know at: https://innovativeba.com/contact/

Thank you for watching this video!  Please subscribe, comment and share with those that need to hear it. 

==========================================================

About Steven Denny: Steven Denny co-founded Innovative Business Advisors in 2018 and serves as a Managing Member of the firm. Steve has been actively engaged in M/A activities in a wide variety of industries for the last 14 years and has developed specific products to assist clients in growing their profitability and enterprise value. His specialty is working with established private companies in the lower middle market with annual revenues from $1 – 50 million.

Learn more about what we do at Innovative Business Advisors:

→ Business Brokerage Services (Buy or Sell a Business): https://innovativeba.com/business-brokerage-services/

→ Valuation Services (3 Types of Business Valuations): https://innovativeba.com/business-valuation-services/

→ Coaching Services (Private, Teams, Retreats & More): https://innovativeba.com/business-advisory-services-coaching/

→ Books (You Don’t Know What You Don’t Know™ Book Series): https://youdontknowwhatyoudontknow.com/

Transcript

Welcome to the You Don't Know What You Don't Know Podcast by Innovative Business Advisors. Successful business owners who have started, grown and led businesses share their journey and direction for the benefit of those traveling the same path.

0:17  
So today, we're talking with Dale Furtwengler of the Cutting Edge. Dale's an internationally acclaimed author, consultant, teacher and finance maestro. Dale works with business owners to help them attract the customers they desire and the profits they deserve. You can find his business at Cuttingedge-business.com. Dale, welcome. I've been looking forward to this conversation. Great to see you today. Thank you. I've been looking forward to it as well, Steve. So Dale, tell me a little bit about what led you to start the Cutting Edge. Well, you know, one of the things that I've seen over the years is that a lot of businesses, in fact, the vast majority of businesses, are sorely under compensated for the value they provide. You know, and it tends to look like this, the customer's getting this, and the business owner's getting that, and the customer always has to get more. So what I'm doing is I just help them narrow the gap a little bit there.

1:15  
Yeah, you help them narrow the gap and expand the gap in their favor, I assume, yeah. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, because, you know, the vast majority of business owners are, their intent is to provide great value, and they do. But unfortunately, nowhere in our education system are they taught how to get compensated for that value or how to quantify it, you know. And I come from a finance background so we're taught that kind of thing but most business owners don't come from that background, and consequently, they're, they're at a loss as to how to price themselves and how to get compensated well for their value. You know, so true, and you and I have talked about this before. You know, particularly small businesses, companies less than 50 million in revenues, right? Right. Really feel like they missed the boat on pricing in that regard. And they tend to, they tend to view it, you know, myopically, and only adjust it when they have some major change in their cost of goods sold. And it doesn't seem to be a regular, programmed, programmed process or, or system like you find in medium and larger sized companies. You know, that's true. And you know, the sad thing is that a simple three to 5% annual increase typically keeps the buyer from shopping. Okay, it's small enough that when the, subconsciously what the buyer goes through when they see a three to 5% increase is, let's see, I'm going to go ahead find other vendors, I'm going to have to check references, and then I'm going to have to check reviews, because the references are all going to be good. And then I've got to make the transition. Then I got to hope it goes smoothly. And then, you know, I hope I have the same quality and service that I was getting before. And then they say, you know, it's not worth it. I'll pay the three to 5%. Plus, the icing on the cake for the business owner is that in most years, a three to 5% increase is going to give them a real increase in purchasing power. They're going to be ahead of inflation in most years. Yeah. Like you say, it's sad that nobody's made them aware of that, nobody's shined that light on it for them.

3:46  
Yeah, it really is. And I, you know, I don't know, I don't know why they don't do that. Do you have an opinion on, on what holds business owners back from, from doing that? The big thing is the fear of loss of customers. Yeah. You know, and it's understandable. But what they don't realize is that in the vast majority of cases, an increase in price results in a greater increase in revenues, and that's because people intuitively realize that the higher the quality, the higher the value, the higher the price and and we learned that fairly early. I did a program for an optimist group on pricing and I made that point and one of the women in the audience said, Oh, you're exactly right. She said, my 10 year old daughter is looking for a used iPad. And periodically she's goes out to see what the price is, to see how well her savings are matching up to the to the cost of a used iPad. And she said the other day she went out looking and she saw one and she said, Well, there's no use looking at that one. And I asked her why, and she said, the price is too low. There's got to be something wrong with it. So at 10 years old we already have an understanding of that relationship between price and value. But when we become business owners, we lose that insight somehow.

5:22  
Yeah, the old cliche, you get what you paid for is a cliche for a very important reason, right? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And the other one that that really is that time is money. Yeah. And people misinterpret that so badly because they believe the more time, the more money, right? Well, actually there's an inverse relationship between time and money, so the more quickly somebody can produce a result for you, the greater their value, right? So it's actually an inverse relationship, so when the time drops the value goes up. Yeah, so true. And you know, I think when you're, what I've also seen and correct me if you feel differently about this, if you have a program of regularly adjusting your prices, right, you can you condition the customer as well. So you know, if you don't do it every so often it can be a fight, but if you do it on a regular recurring basis, it does become somewhat automatic and non disruptive to the business. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, if you wait three years, four years, five years, now you're looking at a mirror or a double digit price increase, they are going to shop. You just encouraged them to shop, you, three to 5% they're not going to do that. Yeah. The ones that will, and there will be a few, they're all price buyers. They weren't going to be loyal anyway so you didn't really lose anything. What you lose is what I call the triple B, Triple P customers. Okay, and that is what? Persistent, persistent posterior pain customers. The ones that are driving you and your staff nuts every day and gobbling up huge amounts of energy and resources from your organization because they're never going to be happy, and--  With the benefit of hindsight, you'd probably pay to get rid of them anyway, right? Yeah, exactly. So you have a really unique methodology for helping folks identify their ideal customer. Speak more about that. 

7:43  
Yeah, what I use is a psychographic profile of the ideal customer. So it's a profile based on values, behaviors and characteristics as opposed to demographics. And the easiest way to illustrate the difference, Steve, is, let's assume for a moment that you own a Mercedes dealership. And you know that all of your customers have six figure incomes and they live in certain zip codes. And those are the demographics, and they're accurate, but what they don't explain is why there are people in those zip codes earning six figures who are driving Hummers, Lexus, BMWs, Audi's and all the other luxury cars. And it isn't until you get to that that you really can do an effective job of marketing and attract the customers who value what you value and repel the ones that don't. And so with the psychographic profile it's much easier to market because you know what result you're going to produce, your brand promise, and you know what's important to that customer. And so when you communicate that in your marketing materials, people either see themselves or they don't, and the ones that see themselves are going to call the ones that don't aren't. And so it makes your sales, your marketing efforts a lot more productive, a better higher, a much higher, uh, return on investment, on your marketing dollars. 

9:16  
If you work with a business owner that's not doing something like that, are there, are there building blocks or first steps that you encourage them to take in order to begin to build out that that psychographic profile? Yeah, what I do is I use an interview process with them. And so I come at it from three perspectives and when I get these three perspectives what I find is there are elements that are common to all three, and that helps me define the psychographic profile for their ideal customer. So the first set of questions relates to, you know, why did you create the offering that you created? What did you see that was missing in the marketplace, because when I get answers to that, then I know what's important to them as a seller, as a business owner, and what's driving them. The second set of questions relates to the most enjoyable customers they have. What makes them so much fun to work with? Okay. The third set of questions in who's your most profitable customer? And it's often the same as the most enjoyable. You know, what is it that they see or that they value so highly that they're willing to pay a higher price than most of your customers to get what you have to offer. And so when we take the answers to those three sets of questions, we find, typically three to five, more often than not, four, elements of a psychographic profile of that ideal customer. And when they have that then what's interesting is that when they're in a sales call with someone, they're subconsciously listening for things that either affirm that they fit or that they don't. And so you what you find is that, and what my customers, my clients, all find is that they feel more in control because they're deciding whether or not they want to take this person on as a customer. And so they're having more fun doing business and when they take on these customers because the values are aligned, these people are willing to pay a much higher price. In fact, most of my clients will end up getting somewhere between five to seven times what they were getting previously for the same offerings.

11:46  
Interesting. Yeah, that's, that's quite a leap. Yeah. And I would imagine this is, this is brand new thinking for most of your customers in that regard. Absolutely. 
Because, again, you know the business environment we grow up in, and the education, business education system is focused on demographics and market share. Yeah. And the reality is that the market for any business is minuscule in relation to the entire market. And, you know, business people who will say, Yeah, but I want to help more people. That's fine. It's admirable. But here's the reality, out of all the people that you could help, there are only about this many that want help. Yep. And if they don't want help, if they're happy with the status quo, you can't help them. That's one of the things we talk about a lot, and many of the guests on our podcast have highlighted the fact that, you know, one of the hardest things for a business owner to do is actually get out and seek help, right? And they, and, and they, they forget that that's what their customers are doing when they hire them as well. And it is, it is an interesting point of fact that you're, you're absolutely right about. It's the minority that are, that are upfront and honest about that and therefore, you know, kind of the most easy, easiest and maybe the most enjoyable to work with, right? Oh, absolutely, yeah. And, you know, I've often likened consulting and to me, consulting and training and mentoring and coaching and facilitating, those are all just tools in the toolbox, so you use the right one for the situation. But, well, one of the things that I've often likened consulting to is a 12 step program. So the, until the person that you're talking to has hit bottom, until they've tried everything that they could possibly imagine and none of it's worked, they're not really willing to look for help or ask for help. Yeah. And it's human nature. You know, I'm no different than anybody else. I have to explore the things that I think are going to work before I'm going to ask for help. So I'm not being critical of anyone for doing that. It's just a function of our human nature.

14:21  
So as a business owner develops this psychographic profile, I can see how it can definitely be very helpful for them as they're, as they're working with existing clients and new clients, right? And I'm, I imagine it's a tool that the whole organization can adopt if they've got sales people, inside sales people, or outside sales people, etc. You want to communicate that far and wide in the company, don't you? Oh, absolutely. And you know, it not, and beyond the salespeople even. Years ago, I was talking to a CEO who was a prospect for my services, and for some reason, he had the VP of HR with him. And a call came in that he felt like he had to take and he excused himself. And so it's just the VP of HR and me there, and it was an organization that was primarily a sales organization and they contracted externally to get the work done. And so the VP of HR said, Well, could we use this in hiring contractors? And it kind of caught me off guard, you know, I hadn't thought about it. And then as I thought about I said, yeah, it could. And what I realized in that moment is that is really how culture within an organization gets created, that alignment of value. So when you're looking at a prospective customer and you're using that profile to evaluate, you can use that when you're hiring employees, you can hire, use that when you're looking at vendors. And when you create an alignment of values through all the entire spectrum of people involved in delivering the goods and services that your business is designed to deliver, you're going to end up with a much better offering, much greater productivity, much greater profitability, and much happier and longer term customers, and you're going to have a culture that's enjoyable, that's fun to work in. 

16:32  
Which means that your team has a lot more fun together, right? They're doing--  Yes. They're doing business with people they know, like and trust internally as well as externally to the business, right? And I know you're a huge advocate of adding more fun into the business. So talk a little bit more about, you know, the addition of fun and what it, and what the byproduct can be for the company. Yeah, the, you know, probably the easiest way for me to demonstrate that is with one of my earliest clients when I started the pricing work, because I had done fractional CFO work previously, and she had hired me to not only help her through this process of premium price strategy with the psychographic profile and all the other things it entails, but she contracted with me to go on three sales calls with her. So when, we completed all the work on the pricing and four months in a row, I called her saying, You know you've got these sales calls, you just need to let me know when you want me to go with you. And the fourth month, she said, Ah, Dale, she said, You've given me so much confidence, she said, that I can't believe what's coming out of my mouth. And I said, Okay, now you've piqued my curiosity. What's coming out of your mouth? And she said, I was in a call the other day and all during that sales call this woman was focused on the price. And she said at the end of the call, she said, The woman said, I'm going to be talking to other people. And I asked her, I said, Well, who are you going to be talking to? And she said, I would never have done that in the past. And the woman said, Yeah, sure. And she told me, and I told her, and this is language that I coach my clients to use, she said, I told her, I'm not going to be the right person for you. And she said her eyes got real big and her mouth dropped open. She said, why? She said, Because all during our discussion, you've been focused on what the price is, and all the people you're going to be talking to are low price providers. I'm not going to be the lowest price. I'm not going to be the right person for you. And she's, I asked her, I said, Well, How'd that feel? She said, It felt great. She said, she said, I knew I was talking to someone who wasn't a good fit and I was going to be better off looking for a good fit. So she said, in the past I would have sweat blood over what could I have said differently? What could I have done differently? How do I get in the door again? She said, I just realized it wasn't a good fit, and I was going to look for a good fit. That's what is fun about doing business, when you feel in control, when you're not struggling to try to convince somebody to do business with you but they're choosing, you and they together are choosing to do business together. And instead of having a customer vendor relationship, you have a peer partner relationship from day one. Yeah. And that's what makes business fun, that's what makes it exciting, and what makes it profitable.

19:45  
Yep, yep. And that's what keeps it profitable as well, right? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm with you 100% on that, that, that can, that can be a big difference. And, and you have to approach that with some confidence knowing that that you are going to be able to meet their objective. But boy, the magic certainly happens when you, when you've got a client that buys into what you've got to offer and is willing to take the, the coaching or the, or the product or service that you offer and use it to its maximum efficiency, right? It just gives you, as a business owner, such satisfaction. It does. You know, and make, it keeps life interesting, exciting, fun. And here's the interesting thing, too, you'd mentioned confidence a moment ago. When confidence is perceived by the buyer to exist in the seller they're more comfortable with their own decisions, with their choices. Okay? So when a seller, a business owner, is stating what requirements they have, and the way I do that in sales calls is, I'll say, you know, where my clients and I enjoy the greatest success is when they possess these qualities, and then I tell them what the psychographic profile of my ideal customer is. By communicating that, okay, that demonstrates confidence in my ability. I'm looking for specific things. And it takes, that again, out of the customer, vendor and to peer partner, because in about 20% of those sales calls, the prospect will ask me, Do I qualify? Yeah, I was just going to ask you, do they, do they come at it that way? Do they try and qualify, right? Yeah. And demonstrate how they meet those criteria? 

21:49  
Yeah, they ask. And 20% will ask if they qualify. And interestingly, in that 20% typically I have a concern, and it opens the door for that discussion. And I can say I'm glad you asked. So, because I know that logically this makes sense to you, but emotionally, I'm going to be asking you to do this and I frankly, I think it's so far outside your comfort zone, you're not going to be able to do that. And if that's the case, then we really ought not move forward. And you know, so we have that discussion. But even the other 80% in that moment realize this isn't going to be a unilateral decision. Them deciding whether or not they're going to hire me. We're going to decide jointly whether or not we're going to work together. And there's this implicit confidence there. You know, and that's so respectful of the, of the other person as well. Because you're, you know, you're really finding if it's, if, if it's not the right fit for both of you you're, you're, you're, you know you're finding that early and not having to go through a lot of pain and anguish to to arrive at that same conclusion, right? So what-- Yeah. What a respectful way of dealing with, with a, with the early kind of gating questions, if you will, in the in the discussion, right? Yeah.

23:18  
Well, thank you. Yes. I feel that way. And you know, one of the things that I found with the psychographic profile is that a salesperson, then business owner, salesperson, whatever the case might be, can typically qualify a prospect with 95 plus percent certainty with one question. No kidding. Yes, I have a leadership program and one of the things I discovered over the years is that there are three types of managers. So, there are autocrats who view employees as automaton so you key in the instructions, flip the switch, and they better darn well do what they're told. There are paternalists who feel a moral responsibility to provide employment to people who aren't necessarily top tier and they don't expect a lot of them. And then there are engagement managers that like to engage your employees and identifying new opportunities, streamlining processes and solving problems. Well, when I got a call from a prospect I'd say, Well, let me ask you this, if you were faced with this situation with an employee, how would you deal with it? And the autocrats would say, Well, I tell them to do this, that or something else. And the paternalists say, Well, I'll get them some coaching or some mentoring or some additional training, or maybe I'll shift the workload. And engagement managers would say, Well, we just sit down together and we find a solution, you know. And so then I knew, now nobody relies on one question, you know, to qualify and I didn't either, but 95 plus percent of the time the answers to all the follow up questions supported the impression I'd gotten from that first question. So you again can streamline that process, again being respectful, as you pointed out, to that prospect, and say, You know I'm not the right person for you. You know, you prefer, and I wouldn't use the word autocrat or paternalist. I wouldn't use those terms. I'd say, But your preference is to tell your people what you want them to do. Yep. I, that's not my style. So I can't tell you how to do that more effectively when that's not my style. I can't, if you're a paternalist, you know, I respect the fact that you want to help these people, but, you know, I can't help but think that they could accomplish more if they were, you know, challenged a little bit more. So I can't help you be better at this because, frankly, I don't, I don't think it works as well as as the alternative. It's just candid, you know, and it's, as you said, it's in everyone's best interest. I'm saving my time as well as theirs, my energy as well as theirs, their money.

26:24  
And, and this is, and this is, you know, everything you've talked about, I know is reality, lived, lived and tested in the field, right? This is not--  Oh, yeah. We're not, you know, using some textbook material here. This is real, practical knowledge. So-- This is the way I do business, you know. And you know, there are four elements in my psychographic profile. If all four exist, we'll do some phenomenal things together. If three of the four exist, we'll do some really good things, but it won't be quite as dramatic. If two are missing, I won't even take them on as a client. Oh. Because it will just, we'll frustrate the bejabbers out of one another and they're going to waste their money because they're not going to do the things they need to do and and they're not going to get a return on their investment. And I'm not in the habit of taking money from people and I know that they're not going to get a result. Yeah. Yeah, I just, it's standard operating procedure for me. Yeah, it's, it's as much a waste of your time as it is of theirs, right? Yeah. Because you could be out, you could be out sharing with somebody that will go out and make something happen. Right. Yeah. So you talked a little bit about the psychographic profile and how meaningful that can be. And you talked a little bit about pricing. Are there other principles that you teach that you've that you find to be kind of foundational in your in your approach? 

27:53  
Yeah, there are actually five elements to a premium price strategy. So the first one is a clear brand promise, which for small businesses ends up being their tagline. You're communicating a clear brand promise, a result that the customer is going to get. The second is the psychographic profile, which we've been talking about. Those are the foundational elements. When you have those two, the other three become byproduct. So then the third element are marketing messages or positioning statements, however you want to phrase it. But in there you're using the language from the brand promise and from the psychographic profile to attract customers that share those values and repel the ones that don't, enhancing the effectiveness of your marketing. The fourth element are sales scripts, and these are scripts that are designed to lead the customer through a calculation of value. I mean, there's plenty of sales training out there on how to get in the door and all that stuff. This is, how do you convert benefits into dollars and cents value so that the customer realizes that your price is fair in relation to the value they're getting. Okay? And then the fifth element's bundling and pricing. And so we create three budget options and then I teach them how to present so that they, their customers get the best solution possible, and they get a higher, higher average ticket sale in the process. Excellent. And then, you know, what I've added, and the reason I call my business Cutting Edge now, the element that I've added here recently is helping them change the their role as a salesperson, whether it's the business owner or a sales person, so that they can gain a decades-long competitive advantage. And using a portion of the sales time to visit with existing customers and learning how their customer's customer's needs are changing and evolving, buys you three to six months to position yourself to be able to help your customers meet those needs, which then gives you the opportunity to be the first to the market with those solutions. And if you're doing that consistently, year in and year out, you're going to have a decades long competitive advantage. 

30:39  
Yeah, maybe a forever competitive advantage. Dale, I've-- Yeah. I've only heard one other person in all my years talk about that strategy and that strategy is so powerful, because when you and your customer are, as you say, operating as peers together and, and they're sharing their future dreams and, and desires and plans and goals, and encouraging you to help them achieve those things, now you have that true partnership that just endures. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean there's, loyalty is a two way street-- Absolutely. But you create loyalty, and you're being loyal to them and their success, and they're being loyal to you and your success as well. And yeah, you are partners in this. And again, makes the relationship fun, makes it exciting. Yep. You're accomplishing things together. Things that maybe you didn't even think were possible. Had no idea that they were going to evolve that way, right? Yep. Yeah, how many times does that happen to each and every one of us? Yeah, you know, we don't, you don't make, you don't make lightning that often, right? But every, when you do, it certainly is memorable. Yeah. It is, it is. You know, when I started my career with a national CPA firm, or somebody had told me I was going to be doing this business development type stuff, you know, with branding and profiling and sales and marketing, I'd have gone, I don't think so. But, here I am, you know.

32:19  
And, and you do it wonderfully so. Thank you. So it's just, just phenomenal. And I love it. I love it, as you can tell, you know. What do you think that, what do you think it is that holds business owners back? A lack of knowledge. Yeah. You know, we're not taught these things, even in our college education programs. These are not things that are being taught. Even the MBA programs, yeah. Yes. Interestingly, I spoke to a an entrepreneur, graduate entrepreneurship program at Washington U this spring on these topics and the teacher was kind enough the next day to send me feedback from the students. And one of his students said, because in the program I talk about price elasticity and, you know, as a way to demonstrate the folly of some of the concepts that exist. And so one of the students said, I've taken some economics courses in the past, I have never heard anybody talk about price elasticity the way Dale does. It's completely changed my thoughts on marketing and sales. It's not about the masses and it's like hallelujah.

33:38  
Somebody, somebody was listening. Yeah. You know, but it's not being taught that way and that leaves business owners in the situation of trying to figure it out on their own and the only frame of reference they have is what their competitors are doing. Yeah. And the reality is their competitors didn't get the training either. Yeah. So, you know, it's perpetuating things. And you know, even the financial press is misleading. I can--, frankly, I canceled my subscription to The Wall Street Journal decades ago because I kept seeing these articles where they'd say that Sony or Intel or whatever company had lost market share. But they never defined market they were talking about. They never asked the question, was it market they should never been in in the first place, you know. So when you're talking in vagaries like this on a consistent basis, and the implication in the title of the article is always that this was a bad thing and that having market share is a good thing, which means that quantity is important, more important than quality. Not my experience. You know, it just-- Well, I think, I think the iPod is the best example of that. If you remember, you know, the Walkman had 100% market share, right? Yeah. And you could buy a Walkman for $39 and Sony was the king of the world until Steve Jobs brought out this little device that sold for $399, right? More than 10x as much, and all of a sudden, the pie, the pot, the market share pie grew exponentially, right?

35:33  
Well, absolutely, yeah. Yeah. And that's not unusual. You know, my clients typically end up getting five to seven times what they were getting previously for the same offering, but it's because they have a clear understanding, their words now, Dale, the clarity you've given me about who my ideal customer is, what it is that they value, and how much they value it gives me the confidence to hold firm on my pricing. And I'm having more fun doing business and the reason they're having more fun doing business, they're more in control. They're deciding whether or not to take people on as customers. Listen, more fun and more profits, what could be better, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I know you're leading a master class here in mid November. Tell us a little bit more about it. Yeah, it's a half day session. The class size is limited to six, because we're gonna go deep diving on this. But they're gonna come away with all five elements, the brand promise, the psychographic profile, the marketing message, sales scripts, and bundling and pricing for their business. And this is, this is a hands on workshop master class with you leading the organiz--  leading the-- I'll be leading the course and session. And you know, in part, they'll, they'll get the benefit of hearing other people's ideas on what's important in their business and that may trigger additional learning for them in that process as well. Outstanding. When's, when's the class going to take place? November 13, 
eight to noon, and it's at Thrive Go in Chesterfield. Well, fantastic. How would people learn more about that if they wanted to get more details or figure out how to--  Yeah, they can go to my website, CuttingEdge-business.com, and then click on the master class tab and it'll have details about what each of those five elements entail and and what they're going to get out of it. And you know, there is going to be a time period after the class where they'll be able to email or call and get implement, implementation questions answered because I want people to have that as well. There are always questions that come up after you embark on something new and I want to make sure they get the answers to those questions.

38:01  
Outstanding. Well, Dale, if somebody else, somebody that's listening to this would like to get in touch with you and and query you more about what you have to offer, how would you, how would you invite them to reach out to you? Okay, they can do it through the website, or they can call me at 314-707-3771, that's 314-707-3771, or they can email me at Dale@Fertwengler.com. And spell that for us. D, a, l, e, at, F, u, r, t, w, e, n, g, l, e r.com. Outstanding. Listen, there's a, there's a little, there's a little bonus here today, as people, if they're listening to this, they may not see the video play where you and I are recording, but your signature has something else in it, besides your name, it's, it says Five Forever. Give us the little Easter egg on, on, what is the Five Forever all about?

39:08  
Okay, yeah, my, my mastermind group has insisted that I have that Zoom handle. And what happened is, I went to a birthday party for a friend and there was a couple there that had a little five year old girl with them, and she was the only child at an adult party. And I always feel sorry for little kids at adult parties like that, so I started clowning around with her, and after a while her mother took her home and got her out of the party dress into her play clothes and let her burn off some energy. They come back, and the little girl's climbing up in the chair next to me and she looks at me and says, I'm going to sit next to you because you're a silly person. And I thought, all right, the five year old's still alive and well. And so I told the story to my mastermind group. They said, You've got to make that your handle. Five Forever. Love, it, I love it. Five Forever, the spontaneous joy and pleasure that five year olds experience or something. Oh, yeah, toddlers, to the toddlers the world's new, exciting, amazing, and they can't wait to explore and that's kind of how I like to be. Outstanding. Well, Dale, this has been great. Thanks so much for the time today. I know you'll have a very successful class and I hope this will, this will encourage business owners to reach out to you direct and learn more about what you've got to offer. So appreciate your time. Oh, my pleasure, and thanks for having me, Steve, it's been a real treat to be able to share this with your audience. The honor's been all ours. Thanks, Dale.

40:50  
Thank you for listening to the You Don't Know What You Don't Know podcast. We invite you to visit www.youdontknowwhatyoudontknow.com and sign up to receive updates on upcoming episodes. You can also let us know if you'd like to be a guest or recommend a business owner to be interviewed. Find us on LinkedIn, Facebook and YouTube where you can like, follow, share and join our efforts. Thanks for listening. We hope you join us again.