Interview with Dawn Krause, Owner of Livian St. Louis Real Estate Business

Dawn is Partner and Principal Owner of Livian St. Louis, formally known as The Krause Basler Network, powered by Keller Williams Realty. Dawn and her business partner, Tom Basler, bring a combined 50 years of real estate experience to their community of agents and clients with the philosophy, “Success through others; no one succeeds alone.” Livian St. Louis has consistently ranked amongst the top 3 teams out of approximately 12,000 agents in St. Louis since their formation in 2015. 

Dawn’s drive and passion have led her to own three real estate offices located in Chesterfield, Missouri; Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri; and O’Fallon, Illinois as well as a principal owner of Pinnacle Title Agency she launched early 2019. In addition to ownership in these market centers and the title company, Dawn serves as the Operating Principle of the O’Fallon, IL market center and the General Manager of the Chesterfield, MO market center.  

In April of 2022, Dawn became an (LTL) Livian Territory Leader of the 6 state Midwest Territory where she works to expand the Livian footprint by attracting top talent to the platform. Dawn’s passion for helping others discover their business needs and the options they have to help them get to the next level led to her promotion to Vice President of Growth for Livian in June of 2022.  

Dawn also serves as the Luxury Regional Ambassador for the Keller Williams Greater Heartland Region. Her role as ambassador keeps her closely connected to the shifting luxury market at a national level, allowing her to support the region’s agents and teams in building their businesses in the luxury space.  

Dawn is the wife of Mike Krause, the Fire Chief of Metrowest Fire Protection District, and they recently celebrated their 26th wedding anniversary. She is also the proud mother of three children – Emma who is 22 years old, as well as Gus and Tucker, her identical twin boys, who are 20 years old.  Giving back to the community is a gigantic passion of Dawn’s. She focuses much of that passion on being a voice for inclusion of those with special abilities through Best Buddies. The impact of this international organization made its mark on her family after her twins were both diagnosed with Autism at the age of 3. 

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About Steven Denny: Steven Denny co-founded Innovative Business Advisors in 2018 and serves as a Managing Member of the firm. Steve has been actively engaged in M/A activities in a wide variety of industries for the last 14 years and has developed specific products to assist clients in growing their profitability and enterprise value. His specialty is working with established private companies in the lower middle market with annual revenues from $1 – 50 million.

Transcript

00:00

Welcome to the You Don't Know What You Don't Know podcast by Innovative Business Advisors. Successful business owners who have started, grown and led businesses share their journey and direction for the benefit of those traveling the same path. All right,

00:17

so today we're talking with Dawn Krause. Dawn's the partner and principal owner of Livian, St Louis, which was formerly known as the Krause Basler network, powered by Keller Williams Realty. Dawn and her partner, Tom, Tom Basler, that is, bring a combined 50 years of real estate experience to their community of agents and clients and through Livian, particularly, they focus on the philosophy of success through others. No one succeeds alone. And Livian St Louis is consistently ranked among the top three teams out of the more than 12,000 agents in the St Louis marketplace. So Dawn's drive and passion have led her to own three real estate offices. Not one folks, but three real estate offices, Chesterfield, Missouri, Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri, and O'Fallon, Illinois. She's also the principal owner of Pinnacle Title Company, which was launched in 2019. And then, not only is she the owner of these, but she's the Market Center Operating Principal for the O'Fallon office and the General Manager of the Chesterfield office. In April of 2022, Dawn became a Livian territory leader for the six state Midwest territory, and her role there is to expand the Livian footprint by attracting top talent to the platform. And Dawn's passion for helping others discover their business needs and the options they have to help them get to the next level have led to her promotion to now the Vice President of Growth for Livian. So Dawn serves, in addition to all of those duties, she serves as the Luxury Regional Ambassador for the Keller Williams greater Heartland region, and her role as ambassador keeps her closely connected to the shifting luxury market at a national level, allowing her to support her region's agents and teams in building their business. Dawn is the wife of Mr. Mike Kraus, who many people may know as the Fire Chief of Metro West Fire Protection District, and they just recently celebrated their 26th wedding anniversary. Congratulations. Thank you. She's also the proud mother of three, Emma, who's 22 years old, and the twins Gus and Tucker, who are now 20 years old. Giving back to the community is a gigantic passion of Dawn. She focuses much of that passion on being a voice or inclusion for those with special abilities, through the Best Buddies organization, what a phenomenal organization. The impact of this international organization made its mark in her family after her twins were both diagnosed with autism at the age of three. So, wife, mom, community leader, business mogul, I'm very pleased to introduce you all to Dawn Krause. Dawn welcome. Thank

03:00

you, Steve. I appreciate it. I'm so happy to be here. I've known you for years, and I just have the utmost respect for you, and was honored and humbled that you invited me to be a guest today.

03:11

Well, likewise. I mean, you are one incredible lady. Dawn again, you know, it's just amazing what you've accomplished in the group. And I think you graduated from Mizzou, is that right?

03:24

Yeah, I did. My undergrad is from Mizzou. My bachelor's degree was in psychology, and then I graduated from Lindenwood University with my master's degree in professional counseling.

03:33

Yes, so, from professional counseling to real estate mogul, what's that path all about?

03:40

Great question. Never one that was intended I will tell you that. So when I decided to go into counseling, I did that because I wanted to save the world. I have a incredible passion to help people. And when I finished my master's and started doing the counseling, I was enjoying and just loving the pouring into and helping people, yet the hours and the pay were not so fabulous. And so I decided to move from that realm into a human resources position for a healthcare system in the St Louis area. In HR where I worked for several years I did recruitment, work comp and employee relations. And it was during that time, Steve, that my husband, Mike, at the time, he was a firefighter and paramedic, so he was still on shift work, and so he only worked 10 days a month, because he worked 24 hour shifts. So he had gotten his real estate license to flip homes because he had extra time on his hands. We had Emma at the time. She was 14 months old, and we were going to try for one more. And God said, Ha, ha, ha, let there be twins. So I literally cried for two straight months. And they were not tears of joy, Steve, they were tears of, Oh my gosh, how am I going to do this? Three babies under the age of two, oh my goodness I’m going to be working for daycare. And so I said to Mike, I'm like, the, you know, it doesn't even make sense. And he said, You know what, you're really good with people. Why don't you get your real estate license, and if you sell one house a month, we'll be okay. So that's literally how it started. Was just a total God wink where, you know, we ended up with the first of several surprises of having the twins, because there were no twins in my family, and then, and then having Emma on top of it, it just was not a family dynamic that was going to be one that would match the profession that I was in. So when we started selling, when I started selling real estate, I also nursed the twins for nine months. So I was supposed to be on bed rest with the twins. Instead of being on bed rest, I sat pregnant out to here in real estate school, got my license. So then, after I had the twins, I was nursing them so I could only be gone long enough to show homes to get back to feed the babies. And that went on for about nine months. And you know, there was never any intention of building a big real estate business. It was really just out of desperation and had to, you know? The twins were, when we had the twins, we were going through 30 to 40 diapers a day between the three babies. And so we just had to make stuff happen. And then through a lot of, you know, really just focusing on our customers, who were pretty much everyone you know was people we knew. So we didn't buy internet leads or anything like that. We just worked with people that we know and who trusted us. And frankly, the fire department is a very, very loyal family. So they're like, Oh, Krause’s wife has a license, sell our house. We're like, we don't know what we're doing. And they're like, that's okay, you guys will figure it out. So it was kind of really a baptism by fire, high customer service, and the business just really started taking off. And we were with a traditional company for eight years, and then in 2009 were introduced to Keller Williams, and that's where we came over to KW and things really, really started taking off. Because we learned something called the Millionaire Real Estate Agent book, which is a best practices on how to build a real estate business that nets a million dollars off of using scalable, duplicatable models and systems. Through that journey, built a real estate business, and on page 273, of the MREA, it talks about the different levels of bringing leverage into your business. And so we've built it to what I call level six and a half and there's seven levels. And six and a half, which basically means I do more of the leadership side of the organization, and I'm blessed to still have a lot of relationships out there in our area, so I do focus more on relationship building and that sort of thing, and leadership. And because I had a lot of amazing talent in the organization, for several years, it was back in 2010 that I started getting into market center leadership, which then led to regional leadership, which then led to other relationships, and then the title company, and then eventually partnering with Livian, which Livian is Gary Keller, who's the founder of Keller Williams. And--   Oh, it is? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so Gary Keller and Adam Hergenrother are the owners of Livian. And it is a massive platform that basically takes kind of what Tom and I had built, and they started 12 years ago, versus Tom and I only started the expansion side of things about five years ago, so they were just significantly further ahead. We had an introduction there with Adam and realized that there were some leadership opportunities. And those leadership opportunities were really focused a lot on recruiting. And so at first I was, was vetting the potential partnership based on the team first, because I can't recruit to something I don't believe in. And as we went through that information journey, I realized, Wow, this is the place where we can really create opportunities for our agents and our operational team members, provide more services to our customers. And so we joined in February of this year. And what had taken, what had taken 20, a little over 20 years, to build an infrastructure that broke 100 million in production. In less than 60 days we more than doubled that by recruiting another six teams to our, to our, to our team, through the Livian platform that brought another 100 million in production. Incredible. So and then through that, that recruiting process, there was some eyes that went, Wow, that girl kind of knows what she's doing with recruiting. And that led to some other conversations, which then led to me being the Vice President of Growth now for the whole organization.

09:38

Incredible, incredible, wow. So, you know, just to grow, and when you think of the real estate business, right, as, as we said in the introduction, there's, there's over 12,000 local agents here in the St Louis, greater, St. Louis marketplace. Yes. And you guys are invariably in the top three, always, right? Yes. What separates the wheat from the chaff? When you're out there looking at these folks, and you're looking to recruit them. What are, what are the key things that you're looking for to bring them

10:04

in? Well, first and foremost, is a cultural match, so that--  Talk more about that. Yeah, as leaders, our, the, the biggest thing that we bring to an organization is clarity for the organization. It's direction for the organization, and it's protecting the culture of the organization. And it is, it's not easy. Leadership is a, is a rough road. It's hard, and it comes with massive reward. And the biggest thing that we have to do is to vision cast. And when you vision cast, what you do there is you talk about opportunities for those in your world. That's the succeeding through others that you, that you talked about in the intro bio, that you discussed succeeding through others by showing them a way that together all of our worlds can be much larger than if we were in silos doing it on our own. And so making sure that there is a cultural alignment with those with whom we partner is paramount paramount to the organization continuing to grow. When there becomes a mismatch in values or a mis mismatch in mindset, toxicity can start to drip into the organization, which is incredibly destructive. And so, making sure that there is protection over that culture and that alignment is really, really important. And so that's one of the key things that Tom and I do is making sure that those with whom we partner do see the bigger picture, and that no one, not one person, including me, including Tom, is above anybody else in the organization. We all owe the mutual respect and all of our efforts to one another, because we all have families that are relying on that mission.

11:49

It's so special, Dawn. I mean, I think culture is the, is really a key differentiator for high performing teams, regardless of the business, right? Yes, yes. And it's, it's one of the things that we keep hearing about over and over again as we're talking to successful business owners like yourselves. But when you're evaluating people for that, for their, for their ethics, for their ethos, if you will, do you have specific practices that you use to try and uncover that in people, particularly those that you may not know very well as you're, as you're beginning to recruit

12:22

them? Absolutely. And in the initial conversation, in the, in the discovery conversation, I focus a lot, so a lot of people will come to the conversation thinking, well, we're going to talk about real estate. So what I'll ask is, so how long have you been in real estate, Steve? And you'll say, 15 years. I'll go, great. You know what? For so many of us, this is a second profession or a third profession. I'm always really curious, what did you do before you got into this wacky, crazy world of real estate? And then I let them tell me kind of about their journey. And what I'm looking for in that journey is I'm looking for successes. I'm looking for, for scenarios where they kind of just showed up or ended up in a leadership position. I'm looking for track record. I'm looking for patterns. I'm looking to see and I will, I will weave into their questions like, you know, outside of the work side, what do you love to do? What, what excites you outside of work? I'll look for any sort of background or pattern on if they were into sports. If so, what kind of sports were they involved in? So I'm looking for someone who is used to team and contributing and that sort of thing. So I ask a lot of questions about background. And then when I see patterns and track record, I'll ask questions like, so gosh, I'm hearing all of these promotions and things that happened in your previous world. What characteristics to, what, what characteristics would you attribute that continued success to? And then I want to hear what they're, what they're, how they're titling that. And then I will ask them so see, what was it that led you to move, you know you had these successes? What was it that led you to move from x profession into real estate? And then they'll tell me about that. Okay, now tell me a little bit about your real estate business. And then I'll say, Okay, thank you so much, Steve, this has been super helpful in looking in the rear view mirror to understand where you came from, where you are, because the journey is part of what molds us. Now, can we move that to the windshield? I'm so curious. As you look out a year and say, in five years, where do you see you? Where do you see your business, what excites you? So through that journey, I'm learning where they've been, where they are, where they want to go, how big of a mindset they have, how important certain things are to them. And couple that with their track record, and usually within all of that conversation, I can start to see value start to peak out. I can see what's important to them. I can see things that I can pretty quickly go, I don't know that this is going to be alignment. So that's how I start to vet that that culture piece.

14:53

What are the things that get you excited that you say, Hey, I think there's a real strong potential partnership here. What are the kind of the things that you

15:04

look for? Hungry, hungry, humble and driven.

15:07

Hungry, humble and driven. Yes,

15:10

I don't care what someone has achieved. When someone presents in the conversation in a humble way, they're curious. That usually shows they're curious and they're coachable, which indicates learning mindset and no matter what there's, you know, some people kind of have this. So there was something that described to me one time the difference between cocky and confident. So cocky is when someone does something one time and talks about it over and over again. Confident is when they they've done something over and over again and they're ready to teach other people what that is. So I want to see if someone comes, confidence is great, absolutely, because in real estate, this is a highly emotionally charged industry. You are dealing with people's biggest financial investments, you are dealing with highly, sometimes highly tense, emotional, personal situations. So one has to be able to have the confidence to present in no matter what the emotion is doing, yet stay humble enough to be curious and to sometimes be be ready to receive that emotion in a way that previously they may, some may posture about it and realize, you know what, Steve, I go into conversations and I say this, I assume positive intent. That people are doing the best that they can do in the moment with the knowledge that they have and the situation that they are in. We never know what someone is dealing with behind closed doors. We never know what's going on with them personally. So when we assume positive intent, we come with more of an open mind and more curious. So when people are coming to a conversation to talk about a potential partnership, I want to see humility in that they ask questions and they're curious and they're coachable, and they're learning based. I want to see hungry and driven, meaning they're hungry for what's next and teach me. I want to learn, and how can I give back? And then the driven is, you know what? There's a lot of unknowns that can happen out there in any given real estate situation that they're driven to go, Whatever it is that comes up, we'll find a way to get past any challenges that present.

17:21

Awesome. What a wonderful combination. Thank you. What do you think with so many different real estate companies out there, right? And it's, it's got to be one of the most competitive fields with the low barrier to entry. I mean, that's why there's so many 1000s of them around here. What makes, what makes your business so special and different from the others? Yeah.

17:42

Well, I would say in our industry, yes, we do have a widget that we sell, which is called a house. Yeah. But really the biggest part of success in the real estate industry is about relationship building. So I don't even use the word, you know, sometimes people ask me, you know, what's your what's your superpower? And I will say, I believe a gift that God has given me is the ability to relate and connect. And that, what happens with that is a natural attraction happens. Um, so if it's for buyers and sellers, and it's an attraction for them to want to come back for the next transaction, the next transaction. If it is agents and talented operations, etc, it's an attraction of, Hey, I see the bigger picture of what you all are doing. I want to be a part of that, and I want to contribute. And so agent attraction, consumer attraction, is, is a big part of of what gets us into business and staying in a business together. And so of the 12,000 agents, that's local, there's almost 1.6 million members of the National Association of Realtors. And with what I do now as the Vice President of Growth, I recruit all over the country. And so, so there is a, so why are people coming to Livian whether it's locally in St Louis, or the Metro East, in Metro East Illinois, or Lake of the Ozarks, which is where the three places that we have, my, Tom and I have teams, but we're in actually now, in 26 states and 47 different markets, pretty soon to be in all 50 states. And what is the attraction? Steve, the attraction is this, is that the loneliness epidemic in leadership is at all time highs. We say that agents are wearing kind of the cloak of, the cloak of anxiety in our industry, because A it is so emotionally charged. B, what's happening there in our industry, and has for a while, is that commission suppression is a very, very real part of what we, of what we can, of what is happening in real estate. So, if you look at the average commission at the end of the 90s, it was 6.7%. I Googled a couple weeks ago, the average commission in the United States was 5.37%. So you can see commission suppression has been very real and will likely continue. Well, that's happening at the same time that the consumer is not only wanting but demanding more value. Why? Because there's so many dis-intermediators that are out there trying to get between the consumer and the agent to try to get the eyeballs that we as agents have to work harder to keep the relationship, provide more value on less dollars. How do you do that? Through consolidation. With consolidation comes collaboration, economies of scale, etc, and then this loneliness epidemic gets taken care of because now there's collaboration. So I don't have to be the one to figure out how to take the organization from 100 million to two, from our local organization, from 100 million to 200 million, because I have an entire operations team that is way better at building infrastructure than what I am. You know, rather than being the big fish in a St. Louis pond, now, I mean, we just had a team commit last week that does 400 million, so my 106 when we came to Livian I mean, that's a quarter of what they have built. Well, it's that level of mindset and conversation that I'm now collaborating with every single day. And what that does is raise the lid for all of us. So the rainmakers visionaries have that kind of collaboration. The operational leaders have top operation, operations community for all the top teams across the country. And it's those sort of relationships that help relieve us of that cloak of anxiety, like, Oh my gosh, I don't have to figure all of this out on my own anymore. There are those who have gone before us. We call it standing on the shoulders of giants. And so when, when you ask the question of, why do people come to an organization like this? They do it for that collaboration. And really, what Livian is Steve is it's a platform that removes, it's a real estate team, platform that removes friction so that agents and teams can plug in and accelerate and amplify their business. So, it's not about saying what you're doing hasn't been good. It's saying, obviously you're doing really great things because you built a business to this size. Do you want to keep working as hard as you've worked? Or is it time to partner and start working differently and be able to accelerate where you wanted to get to? Does that make sense? It's a very different, very different approach. It's truly about a partnership. It's not, we're not absorbing anyone, we're not taking anyone over, we're partnering with so everyone can accelerate together.

22:33

The skills that got us here are not sufficient to take us where we want to go. That is, that is sharpening the sword.

22:38

That's exactly right. And another part of that Steve is, as far as you know what, what draws them is because we are in such a big world. Like I said, we are Gary Keller and Adam Hergenrother’s team. And you know when, when, even though Adam started expansion 12 years ago, he just partnered with Gary at the end of 2021. So when I joined Livian six months ago, we had 328 agents. Today is September 12. We have 444 agents. We're looking to have 1000 agents by the end of this year. And within five years, we'll have 25,000 agents. Wow. So on the earlier side of a massive growth trajectory, which, for those who have kind of you know, familiar with, with the business world, when someone shows up, when you're on the earlier side of something that has a large growth trajectory, there's massive upside and opportunity with that, because the organization needs so much leadership to have that kind of growth. So when you step, when you show up, you embrace the models and systems and you have successes, you can't help but be noticed. And that's whether you're an agent at what we call an empire builder, an empire protector, who might be the operation people who are helping to operationalize and build more of the systems. It truly is, is an environment of abundance for all. And

23:54

that's attractive to people. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. No doubt. As, as one of our mutual friends says, right, We're, we're the product of the people we hang out with, right? So. Absolutely. You want to go up, start hanging out with people that are, that are on that same journey.

24:09

That's exactly right. Yes. Yes. I

24:12

love it. Dawn, as you reflect on your business, right? You've, you've had this amazing journey over the past 20 years in real estate. What are you most proud of on this journey?

24:26

I would say I am, I am most proud of, and you may wonder why I'm starting with this. I'm most proud of kind of the evolution that I have had. Because what I know is that I can't be the best leader for my people until I become the best version of myself. You can't give what you don't have. And so I have been through a lot of highs, a lot of really, really high highs, you know, you kind of read the the the social media reel, I guess, if you will, of some of those highs at the beginning. Those came with a whole lot of valleys amongst those peaks. And in those valleys is where growth happens, discomfort happens. And I take great pride in the fact that I have made a ton of mistakes. And so my whole goal is to help those with who I am partnered and in business, to say you don't have to make the same mistakes that I did. Let's partner together and have a bigger world together, and not have to to have the same pitfalls. And so I have a lot of pride in kind of the evolution of my mindset. When I joined Keller Williams 13 years ago, when I got into real estate, 21 years ago, never in a million years that I would think, think that I would be where I am today, and that came through from all those ups and downs. And so through that evolution, I've become a stronger leader and a stronger businesswoman, which has then allowed me to mentor others that maybe were struggling and looking for that kind of mentorship. And then we went through one another, we lock arms and say, You know what, where, what's the next thing we're going to forge through and get to the other side? So there is, and you probably know this, Steve, there's something very, very unique about a buffalo. Which sometimes people are like, What is unique about a buffalo and why is she talking about it? Buffaloes are unique because, unlike most other creatures that, oh, you've got a buffalo. Okay, so why are they unique, Steve?

26:27

No, no, I'm not taking away from the story. I just wanted to share with you that I get it. I love it.

26:32

Well, the reason, for those of you, because I know this is a podcast, cannot see, Steve just showed me a figurine of a buffalo. They are unique, because when a storm comes most other creatures, and including humans, we run away from the storm because we want to avoid the pain. The buffalo turns and runs into the storm because the faster you run to it, the faster you get to the other side of it. And I think it's a really incredible way to approach life. Challenges are always going to be in front of us. We can either run away from them and deal with them as they come, or we can run towards them and we can forge the way for those in our world.

27:08

Yeah, absolutely, couldn't agree more. And back in my younger days when I used to teach water skiing, you know, I used to tell, tell kids, and I was telling my grandkids this this past summer, if you're not falling, you're not learning, right? So failure, failure is the breeding ground of success.

27:27

That's right, absolutely. You got it. Yeah.

27:31

What's the, what's the biggest business challenge that you've faced in this career? You've had, you've had a pretty amazing journey so far. What would you recall as your biggest business challenge?

27:40

I would say the biggest challenge is also the biggest success and the biggest upside, and that's people. In this, in this industry of real estate, it is very, very reliant on being in business with the right people to then attract the right people from a customer standpoint, to then give them the the best service and best experience. It is all about people. And so I approach leadership and and and mentoring differently now than what I used to. And a lot of that comes from the, why I said that, assume positive intent, be curious, ask questions, realize that we never know what anyone is dealing with in any given moment in time. And when we approach conversations in that more humble, humble way, and we show up as a servant leader, that's where we can really build relationships and deepen them and bring out the best in people, Steve, that they didn't even know they had in themselves.

28:39

Yeah, and that's, boy, that's, that's really special when you can accomplish that as a leader too, and you can see people begin to perform even beyond their own wildest expectations because you believed in them and you knew they had it in them.

28:51

Yes. And there were times, you know, from a naïve, when you asked some of the biggest challenges, where I didn't approach conversations well, and I didn't have an open mind, or I didn't, I didn't hold to standards the way that I should, because I didn't want to upset or be mean or what have you. And I ended up damaging the whole organization because I allowed a toxic drip to be in, to first get in, and then to stay in, to the organization. So again, I would say that the biggest challenge and the biggest upside is the same answer, it's people. And it's about how we treat them and how we lead them, and how we show up for them, and the sacrifices that we're willing to make for them, as well as the sacrifices and the non-negotiables for the organization that so many rely upon.

29:37

Yeah, without question. And even in a field like yours, where technology seems to be encroaching on it every day. You get, you know, more and more of these technology solutions that purport to be competitors, right? Yes. And, and that I would, you know, I think there's a lot of people that think that the real estate industry as a whole, right, is as ripe for takeover by technology. But do you ever see that happening? Do you ever see the relationship, you know, being, being subjected solely to a technology solution?

30:10

No. So there will be tech enabled agents, meaning the technology will help us as agents work more efficiently, and which we're going to have to because remember, commission suppression is real. So we have to be able to serve more customers and sell more homes and be more efficient, and we have to be able to do it with less dollars, which is why the consolidation in the economies of scale are so important, and the technology will help us do that. The technology will never eliminate that. Let me tell you, there have been dis-intermediators that have attempted to make that happen, and at the end of the day, people still want a consultant. They still want a coach. They still want a confidant in that real estate experience. So we are blessed that we have not been completely dis-intermediated. Yet it does make an impact. There are, technology is so vast and it's, it's growing so quickly. This comes back to the we have to work harder to keep the relationship and provide more value to stay relevant.

31:10

Yeah, I can see how that's definitely the case. Yes. So you know, as you think about your business today, and you talked about vision casting and so forth, give us a sense, and our listeners a sense of what's your vision for the future? And you know you and I both know that we're not going to live forever, right? Or, at some point in time we may even step away from our business to some other chapter of our life. Do you have a vision for that? Have you begun to think about that in your business?

31:39

Yeah, so some may refer to it as going from success to significance. Yeah. And me, you know, as I was talking with Adam, who is our CEO, Adam Hergenrother, and we were in conversation about a partnership, I told him, I said, I'm just going to be very direct and upfront with you. I totally use my business as a platform for a voice of something I'm very passionate about. And so Steve, you made mention to it earlier when I told you about the surprise of the twins 21 years ago. The bigger surprise came three years later when the second twin was diagnosed with autism. And you know when that happened, I had a really, really hard time. The first twin was diagnosed and then the second twin was diagnosed maybe three or four months later. And I remember, sounds so dramatic but I'm telling you, this is exactly how it happened. The day the second twin was diagnosed, I literally was in my kitchen, and I had just gotten back from the doctor, and I fell to the ground in my kitchen and screamed at God, and said, Why did you do this to me? This is not what I signed up for, and I didn't know what to do. I'm like, I was going to be the football mom and the soccer mom and my husband and I are really social and really all of that kind of stuff. Like, I don't know what to do with autistic kids. And even though my background is in psychology, it's one thing to have a degree in it and to talk to others, but for that to be your reality, I didn't know what to do. So then I proceeded to spend the next two years apologizing for my boys. For those who are familiar with autism, some common features that you may see are stimming. You call it self stimming, where they may flap or make noises or like flap their arms and do some things that to the outside world looks weird. And so I spent a lot of time apologizing for things that I thought others might perceive as weird and might make them uncomfortable, the other people uncomfortable. And I, and I also remember that about two years later, I don't remember the exact situation, but something clicked in me, and I said, You know what? I am never going to apologize for these boys again. They are the greatest gift that God ever could have given me. And from that day on, I thank Him every single day for giving me the opportunity to be blessed with these boys and to be able to be a voice for parents and individuals with special abilities. Notice, I don't say special needs. They have special abilities. And I believe this so wholeheartedly, because what happens is, you know, when someone has special abilities and they look different and they act different, every single human that God made has a gift to give the world, and that gift can sometimes be wrapped in a box with a big red bow, and because they don't look like everyone else and sound like everyone else, we don't get to unwrap that bow and share their gift with the world. And so by having a voice for those with special abilities and advocating for inclusion, then those with special abilities get to share that gift. And I promise you, the world that receives it is as, if not more so, benefited by that gift than what the person that is giving it. And this was really brought to light when I was introduced to Best Buddies in 2016 which is an international organization on inclusion, and it focuses on building genuine, authentic one to one friendships, where those with special abilities is partnered with a typical functioning peer to bridge that gap of social isolation that happens as a natural part of special, many of those with special abilities. Then, as they age out of school, there is a Jobs Program and a Citizens Program. Because, did you know Steve, 81% of individuals that have special abilities are on disability. They can work. They can,  they're very capable of going to work. They just oftentimes have to have extra supervision and extra support, and companies don't want that so, or say they can't afford it. So when I learned about Best Buddies and a chapter, and we started a chapter in my boys’ school, and I saw how, not only did it change my boys’ lives and my family's, the typical functioning peers were like, These guys are the greatest ever. I'm like, oh. So I became this huge mouthpiece for for Best Buddies. And now, because I do a lot of speaking on stages, both locally, nationally, like Friday, I'm going to speak at a regional event in Vail, Colorado. And every time I speak, I always find a way, because people are like, Oh, you've got, you've done this, this and this. How have you done it? And I say, Well, everyone needs to have a Why. Do you want to know what my Why is? Yeah, I want to know. And then I tell them about the boys and about Best Buddies and Steve, typically, by the end of every time I get to present it, at least 25% of the room is either crying or coming up to me afterwards, saying, My daughter has down syndrome, my grandson has autism. I didn't know that this existed. There's so many arenas where we can help people if we can just be a voice and get the message out there. So when you ask about my future and vision and where do I see things, I see continuing to use the real estate platform as a voice, as a platform to have a voice for inclusion. And then ultimately, what we're looking to do is to build a place called Gus’s Place. So Gus, of my twins that are on the spectrum, Tucker, is the higher functioning, Gus is the lower functioning. He'll live with us forever. And I always thought that, Oh, Gus is going to live with us forever until I met a lady who had a 20, I think at the time Jeremy was 24 years old, and she said, she said, Yeah, you know my son's autistic. And I said, Yeah, you know, Gus will live with us forever. She said, I thought that same thing Dawn, until in the same year my husband had a heart attack and I got breast cancer. And I realized we aren't going to be around forever. And the worst thing you can do to a child with autism is to change their routine and their schedule. That's very, very hard for them. She said it was both of us getting sick at the same time that made us realize we needed to have a different perspective on what we were going to do for a long term option for Jeremy. And that kind of went, Oh my gosh, you're right. Well, I mean, Steve, look on every other corner, kind of like a Walgreens or a CVS, there's an assisted living facility on every other corner. Well, guess what? There's a massive population and need for those like, like a Gus, who need to have some sort of of long term living support. So we are going to build a place called Gus’s Place that's going to be a home for those with special abilities so they can have their community and their inclusion. How cool.

38:06

That's awesome. Thank you. That is really awesome. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. There was a, there was a feature on this morning on Squawk Box at the, in the first hour, and they talked about financial planning for autistic and special needs kids, right? Exactly that same dynamic. And they had, they had touched on kind of the business side of doing financial education and trying to give, give them enough interest and awareness so that they could take care of themselves in that regard, when their parents were gone. And I thought it was, it's kind of an interesting thing. But, yeah, you're, you know, how, how, really cool. That's a neat thing.

38:47

Thank you. Thank you.

38:49

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, now that we know your Why we kind of, we kind of get it. So, yeah, that can definitely carry you a long way. Yes. Dawn this is, this has been phenomenal. And, you know, I often, and you've probably heard me say this, I'm sure you've probably heard me say this. I think that my personal view is that God gives special needs people to special people. So they're, they're you and Mike are very, very special people. And, yeah, I'm sure, you know, we had twins for the first time my son had twins, and we didn't have any history of it in our family. So we certainly appreciate the pressures, the unusual pressures that twins exert, particularly as they were young and coming up. But man, the blessings are are just worth all the additional struggles. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, 100%.

39:42

100%. You know, you and I both know Tom Hill very well, and in one of our very first meetings he introduced me to the book When God Winks at You. Yep. And I remember when I read that book, I was thinking, Oh, God winks like it's all positive stuff, right? In reading the book, realize what could be perceived at the time as something negative or devastating or whatever is just as beautiful of a God wink. And I believe that, you know, the boys and their autism is exactly that. While in the moment, I'm on my kitchen floor crying and and screaming at God and all of that, He also gave us the gift of going, Guess what? You're not in charge here, sister. I put you on this earth for a reason. This is, this is, this is my plan. And I'm going to show you, I'm going to show you what that is, just, just come along for the ride. So it was a journey for all of us. God winks come in in positives and negatives, and it's all about what you do with it. And you know, I'm, I couldn't be more grateful for how things have have evolved. Yeah,

40:45

and I saw Gus light up a room once for a Best Buddies thing several years ago. So I mean, the the joy and pleasure that he brings is just amazing. Yeah.

40:54

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank

40:56

you, Steve. Really cool. Well, it's, it's an honor to see you, Dawn. I'm really, really grateful that you came on the show and shared some of your vision, your your passion, your insights as a business owner and some of the things that drive you. I think there's a there's a lot to be had in this session for people that can just stop and take it all in. So, you're an inspiration, and I just wish you and your family all the best.

41:25

Thank you, Steve. I really appreciate it. I'm honored. And if anyone has questions or wants to learn more, or feels a little, you know, struggling with something like we've talked about today, or the business opportunities or whatever, I'm always here to be a resource.

41:40

Wonderful. So how can they get in touch with you Dawn? Best way

41:43

is through Dawn, D, A, W, N @ Livian.com and Livian is L, I V as in Victor, I A N as in Nancy. Dawn@livian.com.

41:54

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